Ouma Sara Fredericks

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Extract from Transcription of a recorded interview Ouma Sara Fredericks (van Rooy), conducted by Martin Mössmer with Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
Location: Breipaal, Douglas, Northern Cape
Date: 18 July 2018

SF = Ouma Sara Fredericks
NvR = Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
MM = Martin Mössmer
dS = daughter of Ouma Sara Fredericks
GF = Gerome Fredericks (grandson of Ouma Sara)

NvR … wants to know where you were born…
SF I was born in Bucklands, I am Sara, Willem Fredericks’ daughter.
NvR Yes.
SF I was born in Bucklands and I stayed –[with] my father– at Cindy van Dyk and I grew up there. I worked for old Ben le Grange, I work-worked there until my father said I shouldn’t work anymore because I worked from seven in the morning until the afternoon and then that old oubaas brought me back and I sat at home, yes. Then we lived in Sandkroek [Bucklands]. Okay. Yes, there I became ǀ’hãbasas [ initiated young woman] at our place, actually at my auntie, Ouma Saai. When I became ǀ’hãbasas they put me in a g!uu [behind a cloth screen] –in a corner, you know, they put a sheet over it– I sat-sat-sat there, for three months and so my father bought me four sheep [when she came out]. It is a belief, do you understand?
MM Hmm.
SF Yes. The people came and ate their fill, partied, farted and those who drank, drank, they kx’aa [‘drink’], kx’aaxuuku kx’aa [‘drink booze’],uh huh
[laughing]
Huh? ǀ’aesen [‘sickly], how pink I was. Boy, I was yellow then! And where is my mother who is lying in her grave? And my father too. I don’t have parents, boy, I become so sad when I sit quietly… I don’t want to, want to… my heart is too full… [to NvR] Why didn’t you bring Rallie with you?
NvR Uh [inaudible] she is looking after the children, man.
SF I have the same task here, that little one was here a moment ago… I have far too many children, hey, there are children from the kroek [settlement] people and our own people.
dS You have to finish nǁau [sic !’ãu ‘say’] what you were saying, Ma.
NvR Yes, you have to nǁau [sic].
SF Why do I have to !’ãu [‘say’]?
NvR Yes…
SF You are telling me what to !’ãu [‘say’].
NvR No, what I am saying is that you have to speak.
GF You have to !’ãu [‘speak’] in your language.
NvR Yes, in your language.
SF Wait man, my head is spinning.
GF You have to !’ãu [‘speak’] in your language.
SF I don’t speak the language… He’s another [inaudible] to me, this chap. [MM].
NvR Yes.
SF He’s a young man, he…
NvR And he is doing, undertaking a big job now.
SF He is doing a big job?
NvR Yes. He has just come from cousin Bettie [Ouma Bettie Visser].
SF What does cousin Bettie say?
NvR She tells about her childhood and how she grew up. Yes, she gave her history. You have a history too.
SF Uh.
NvR Yes.
GF You could speak the language as well.
SF [speaking Xri]
ǁã ti [? ‘I’m becoming thirsty’], ko na haa [‘come’] na ku maa [‘give’] ku ǁaǁã ǀ’aesen-uu [‘become ill’] ǃ’hõa [‘crooked’] a nabuku ǃ’hae [‘fast’], uh-huh?
NvR Yes.
SF Toa a na si hae maa ku ǀ’aes ǁaǁã nǀedisi a maa, uh-hu. ǃuu a bae gǃuu ka na kae ǂ’au, ǃ’huuku na ti sa na uu na Sara ku ku wa ku ti
NvR Now?
SF !’ãu a na da? [Are we waiting?’]
NvR Yes.
SF Uh huh. Gǃuu a na. ǃ’hae ti a na maa ku tu a na ǂĩǂũ a na, ǃũu !uu kare kunisi a maa ku, uh-huh.
NvR Huh?
SF Dai dokor na a kui ti a ǁõlo dai kini haa maa
NvR Ye’
SF Uh-huh. Huh?
MM What has Ouma just said?
SF I said the old legs are hurting, but as ǀ’aeku na ti [‘sickly as I am’] [I went] tothe clinic, uh. Even if they hurt, listen to them creaking, huh? With these old kneecaps all the way [to the clinic].
NvR The kneecaps are hurting and all that kind of thing.
MM Hmm.
SF Yes.
NvR Yes.
SF This old knee, all those years ago we didn’t have knees, now we have knees [that ache] because we have grown old.
MM Hmm.
SF We are old now. Do you see the one washing clothes over there? She’s my daughter too. The other fat one is scrubbing, hmm.
NvR Okay.
SF No, she’s arusen [‘separated’] now, do you see? In my language which I koba [‛speak’] to you now, she is arusen xuu [‘separated from’] now. Uh, she found ǀ’huuna [‘boere’] who employed her and now she canbe arusen xuu [‘separated from’] [us] now. uh. Do you hear?
MM I hear you.
SF Yes. No she arusen xuu [‘separated from’] [us] now. I am so happy now that she can [be] arusen kuu [sic xuu ‘separated from’], that we can be happy and know what and how far, how far you can [?] in the house. Yes, [inaudible], it is my precious blood there, uh. Where is the oupa?!
NvR Well now, when you, when you became a young girl what did your mother do?
SF When I came out [of the hok] that afternoon, they ǁa ti a uu na toãsi [washed me and smeared me] off ǃ’aesen [‘quickly’], wa kuluku la ha [?] off uu [‘smear’], now they washed xuku [‘things’] me, ǃ’aesen, pink. Then aunt Maggie covered me, completely gǃuu [‘covered (with cloth)’] and they also made me pretty.
NvR Who now?
SF They made me beautiful. Sophiena, Sanna Mooketsi, made me very neat and pretty. My doeke [headcloth] tidy, my hair shaved off. Ku dii nǃa re gǃuu [covered going to] to that me-… meneer. [i.e. the water snake]
NvR Hmm.
SF Uh.
NvR To the…
SF All xuuku [‛things’] go that way, the crossbone [aitchbone], goes down, uh, it was soboku [? sopo-ku pos. ‘rubbed with fat’] as well, down kur na toa [? see below], uh.
NvR Hmm.
SF Hmm?
NvR And the cross [aitchbone], what about that?
SF I’ve already said, the cross kur na toãsi was rubbed and smeared with buchu, it is red [from the ochre], sshhhff… I had to take it…
NvR Take it down?
SF Down to that oupa [i.e. the water snake].
NvR Okay.
SF Uh. ǃ’haese [‛quick’] our people took the ǀ’habasas [‘initiated woman’] out.
[SF sings like they sang when they brought the hok-girls back from the river]
NvR Now then, nana, you have to tell us your complete history now so that we can record it the way you told us, you speak beautifully.
MM Hmm.
NvR No, you are truly familiar with this. Now, the people here in Douglas say the Water snake doesn’t exist.
SF He does. At three o’clock in the morning I sat here with the [inaudible], you know, then !’ãu [‛cry’-ed] my late aunt – she has also passed on, you [NvR] knew her.
NvR Hmm.
SF !’ãu [‘cry’-ed] the old goat, “Auku a na ti amaku [?] don’t take Tiǃãse [person’s name].Tiiǁ’oa [God],[s]he’s still our little lamb.” I saw that water open up, making waves – the old xuku [‛things’] have been koba [‛spoken’] about – do you know when my aunt spoke again that water was shaped like a big basin – I was so scared there on the bank, I thought that thing was going to grab her – {they see creatures in the water’s season}[?]. And that morning I saw that man [i.e. the Water snake] has a diamond on his forehead, a shiny diamond that nǁ’aa te xu na toãsi [shone with many colours], yes, he nǁ’aa [shone] like that. Do you hear?
MM Hmm.

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SF = Ouma Sara Fredericks
NvR = Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
MM = Martin Mössmer
dS = daughter of Ouma Sara Fredericks
GF = Gerome Fredericks (grandson of Ouma Sara)

NvR …wil weet waar jy gebore…
SF Ek is in Bucklands bebore, ek Sara, Willem Fredericks se dogter
NvR Ja
SF Ek het dáár gebore in Bucklands, toe bly ek –my pa– by Cindy van Dyk, en dáár ‘et ek groot geraak. So’t ek gewerk vir ou Ben le Grange, só’t ek ‘aar gewerk-wérk, toe sê my pa ek werk’ie meer nie want ek werk van’ie môre sewe-uur af tot die middag toe, dan moet daai oubaas my weer bring op en gaan sit, op huistoe, ja, toe bly ons in Sandkroek [Bucklands]. Oukie. Já, daar’t ek by, daar’t ek ǀ’hãbasas [‘ingewyde jong vrou’] ‘eword in o’se plek, by my antie ein’lik, by Ouma Saai. Toe ek ‘n ǀ’hãbasas raak toe sit hulle my in’ie gǃuu [‘agter (lap) skerm’] –in ‘n hoek, sien jy, sit hulle die laken oor– dáár’t ek gesit-gesit-gesit, drie maande, so’t my pa vir my vier skape gekoop [toe sy uitkom]. Dis ‘n geloof, sien jy?
MM Mmm
SF Já. Die mense het kom dík geëet, agter opgeskop, poep, wie, drink,al die wat drink drínk, laat jy kx’aa [‘drink’], kx’aaxuuku kx’aa [‘drink-goed drink’], uh-hú
[laughing]
Huh? ǀ’aesen [‘sieklik’], hoe pienk is ek’ie?! Toe’s ek vir jou tjéél! En waar’s my mama wat va’môre in’ie graf lê? My pa o’k. Ek het’ie ouers’ie, jong, ‘k word só hartseer as ek so stilsit… ek wil’ie, wil’ie… my hart word te veel… [aan NvR] Nou hoe’om he’ jy nie vi’ Rallie saamgebring’ie?
NvR Uh, [inaudible] hy pas mos’ie kin’ers op, man
SF Ek het net so heil hier, daai eenetjie is nounét hie’ om hie’… ek is vól kin’ers, hey hier’s vi’ jou kin’ers van dié kroek [d.w.s. ‘nedersetting’] se mense, en jou éie mense
dS Jy moe’ mos nou klaar nǁau [sic !’ãu ‘praat/sê’] ma
NvR Ja, jy moe’ nou nǁau [sic]
SF Wáár moet ek nou !’ãu [‘sê’]?
NvR Ja…
SF Jy sê my mos nou voor dat ek kan !’ãu [‘sê’]
NvR Nee, dis wat ek mos nou sê, jy moet mos nou sê
GF Jy moe’ nou ko’ !’ãu [‘sê’] in jou taal
NvR Ja, in jou taal in
SF Man wag, my kop raas nou
GF Jy moe’ nou ko’ !’ãu [‘praat’] in jou taal!
SF Ek praat nie die taal… Hy’s ‘n an’er [inaudible] na my toe, dié mannetjie [MM]
NvR Ja
SF Hy ‘n klein mannetjie dié, hy…
NvR En hy doen ‘n, hy doen ‘n gróót werk nou
SF Hy doen nou groot werk?
NvR Ja, hy ko’ nou reeds daar van niggie Betjie-goed [Ouma Bettie Visser] o’k nou af
SF Hoe sê niggie Betjie?
NvR Ja, hy praat mos nou soos hy nou opgegroei het, hoe hy grootgewor’et, ja. Ja, hy’t sy geskiedenis gebring, jy’t mos ‘n geskiedenis
SF Uh
NvR Ja
GF Jy kon o’k nog praat in die taal
SF [praat op Xri]
ǁã ti [? ‘ek word dors’], ko na haa [‘kom’] na ku maa [‘gee’] ku ǁaǁã ǀ’aesen-uu [‘siek word’] ǃ’hõa [‘krom’] a nabuku ǃ’hae [‘vinnig’], uh-hu?
NvR Yes
SF Toa a na si hae maa ku ǀ’aes ǁaǁã nǀedisi a maa, uh-hu. ǃuu a bae gǃuu ka na kae ǂ’au, ǃ’huuku na ti sa na uu na Sara ku ku wa ku ti
NvR Nou?
SF !’ãu a na da? [‘Wag ons nou?’]
NvR Yes
SF Uh-hu. Gǃuu a na [‘toe agter ‘n laken’]. ǃ’hae ti a na maa ku tu a na ǂĩǂũ a na, ǃũu !uu kare kunisi a maa ku, uh-hu
NvR Huh?
SF Dai dokor na a kui ti a ǁõlo dai kini haa maa
NvR Ye’
SF Uh-hu. Hu?
MM Wat het oum nou gesê?
SF Ek sê die ou pienie [d.w.s. bene], hoe pyn hulle, maar so ǀ’aeku na ti [‘sieklik is ek’] kliniek toe, uh. Al pyn hulle so, hoor jy hoe kraak hulle, hu? Met dié ou kniekoppe, tot dáár
NvR Die kniekoppe pyn nou en al daai tipe goete
MM Mmm
SF Ja
NvR Ja
SF Die ou knie, daai jare toe’t o’s’ie knieë nie, nou’t o’s knieë wat o’s nou gróót [d.w.s. oud] word
MM Mmm
SF O’s mos nou oud. Sien jy daar doer’s o’k my dogter daai wat dié vrywe [d.w.s. klere was]. Die ander dikke werk, daar met skrop’ry, mmm
NvR Oukei
SF Nee, hy arusen [‘afsonder’] nou, sien jy? Op my taal wat ek nou koba [‘praat’] met jou, hy arusen xuu [‘afgesonder’-lik wees] nou, uh, hy’t da’em ǀ’huuna [‘boere’] gekry wat hom da’em neem en laat hy nou kan arusen xuu [‘afgesonder’-lik wees], uh. Hoor?
MM Ek hoor
SF Ja. Nee, hy arusen xuu [‘afgesonder’-lik wees] nou. Nou ek is so d’hy da’em kan arusen kuu [sic xuu ‘afgesonder’-lik wees], laat ons kan bly is dat mens kan dan weet wat, hoe vêr, hoe vêr kan jy in’ie huis. Ja, [inaudible], dis my dierbare bloed daar, uh. Waar’ie oupa?!
NvR Nou ja, toe’s jy, toe’s jy mos nou jongmeisie kom geraak het, toe wat maak mama-goed?
SF Toe’k uitgekom’et toe die middag, toe ǁa ti a uu na toãsi [‘was vir my en smeer klaar’] hulle vir my, ǃ’aesen [‘vinnig’] af, wa kuluku la ha [?] af ge-uu [‘smeer’], nou was-xuku [‘dinge’] hulle my, ǃ’aesen, pienk. Toe maak an’ Maggie vi’ my, toe gǃuu [‘bedek (met lap)’] hulle my uit o’k blom, toe blom hulle my uit
NvR Wie-goed nou?
SF Blom hulle uit, Sophiena, Sanna Mooketsi, báie netjies blom hulle my uit, jong, my doeke staan, my hare is afgeskeer. Ku dii nǃa re gǃuu [‘bedek gaan gaan na’] na daai me-… meneer [d.w.s. die waterslang] toe
NvR Mmm
SF Uh
NvR Na die…
SF Alle xuuku [‘dinge’] gaan diekant toe, die kruisbeen, hy gaan af, uh, hy’s o’k ge-soboku [?sopo-ku dalk ‘met vet ingevryf’], af kur na toã [? sien hieronder], uh
NvR Mmm
SF Hmm?
NvR En’ie kruis[been], wat is daar?
SF Ek sê reeds hy, die kruis, kur na toãsi, afgevrywe, smeer hulle hom boegoe, hy’s rooi [van oker], sshhhff… moet ek mos vat aan ‘om…
NvR Na onder toe?
SF Af na daai oupa [d.w.s. die waterslang] toe
NvR Oukei
SF Uh. ǃ’haese [‘vinnig’] kan o’se mense ǀ’habasas [‘ingewyde vrou’] so’t hulle hie’ uitgekom
[SF sing, soos wat hulle gesing het toe hulle hokmeisies van die rivier af terug gebring het]
NvR Nou, toe toe, nana, nou ein’lik nou, jy moe’ nou, nou jou geskiedenis vi’ o’s, jy moet ‘om ein’lik nou heel bring dat o’s net kan vir hóm kry soos jy nou hier praat, jy praat baie pragtig
MM Mmm
NvR Nee, jy’s rêrig, jy’s op’ie lyn. Nou so, dié mense hier in Douglas sê daar is’ie so ‘n ding van Waterslang’ie
SF Hy ís ‘aar. Drie-uur ‘ie môre dan kom sit ek hier met die [inaudible] hier, wee’ jy, toe !’ãu [‘skreeu’] my oorle antie – hy’s o’k nou oorlede, jy [NvR] ken ‘om
NvR Mmm
SF !’ãu [‘skreeu’] die ou bok, “Auku a na ti amaku [?] moenie vir Tiǃãse [persoonlike naam] vat nie Tiiǁ’oa [God], hy nog ‘n klein lammetjie van ons!” Ek sien ‘aai water maak so oop, hy maak so oop branders – die óú xuku [‘dinge’] is ge-koba [‘praat’] – wee’ jy toe daai water tot my tante weer pra’t toe staan daai water so ‘n kom – ek is só bang ‘‘ar bo op’ie wal bo, smaak vir my die ding gaan hom nou gryp – {hulle moen nou mos gogose sien in die water se’soen}[?], en ek ‘aai môre sien ek daai man [d.w.s. die Waterslang] het ‘n diamond hier op sy voorkop, ‘n blink diamond wat so nǁ’aa te xu na toãsi [‘blink in baie kleure’], ja hy nǁ’aa [‘blink’] so. Hóór jy?
MM Mmm

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