Ouma Rachel Links and Ouma Sara Boom

Extract from Transcription of a recorded interview with Ouma Rachel Links and Ouma Sara Boom, conducted by Martin Mössmer, with Oupa Poon van Rooy
Location: Breipaal, Douglas, Northern Cape
Date: 10 September 2018

RL= Ouma Rachel (Baby) Links
SB= Ouma Sara Boom
NvR= Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
MM= Martin Mössmer

SB This khoep [‘man’], he’s !ã [‘listen’(ing)], he’s !ã, he’s, he, he… his aemp [‘heart’] runs over [i.e. he knows too much].
RL Yes!
[laughing]
MM What is Ouma saying?
SB Ooh! The heart is… big!
[laughing]
Not big, his heart is full!
RL It is running over.
[laughing]
SB The heart is running over, how he !ã [‘listen(s)’] to us.
[laughing]
No, I don’t know, can’t apostle well, I had my, no I only had a little, I only had a little…
RL [inaudible]
SB I don’t know apostle stuff, I only had a little.
RL No, I had it. I had it when I was l’habasas [‘initiated young woman’], because then old Griet Kok en old Katrien Swarts, when I was l’habasa. Then I was ǂgana [? ‘inside’ or ǃ’ana ‘clean’] there, then I became [inaudible] ǂ’oa [‘go out’] laa [‘cloth’] [i.e. leaving confinement], ‟Ooh the ǀoon [‘child’], ooh my the ǀoon, ǁ’ammi [‘water’] ǁ’ammi.” Then she comes, ‟Ouma, what is ǀoon [‘child’], what is ǁ’ammi [‘water’]?” ‟No, you say, child [claps] to the river [claps]” ‟Oh! Now, what does one say now?”
SB ǁ’am [‘water’], ǁ’amdan [‘a little water’]
RL ‟No, you are l’habasas now…”
SB To the ǁ’ammi [‘water’]
RL “…you have to go to the ǁ’ammi. Pray at the ǁ’ammi so that the khoep of the ǁ’ammi [‘the man of the water’ i.e. the Waterslang] can know…”
SB !ã [‘listen’]
RL “…you are a taras [‘young woman’].”
SB Yes.
RL When that khoep [‘man’ i.e. the Waterslang] ximmi [‘take(s)’] me into the ǁ’ammi [‘water’] you won’t find me [claps]. Where? O, king. Here I sit. Seventy two years old on the first of September.
SB [quietly] Sore finger.
RL Two and a seven achieved. [claps]. Siiǁ’oa [‘God’] really maa-ed [‘gave’] so that I could !’hae [‘go’]. I had to !’hoa [‘tell’] about Siiǁ’oa [‘God’] that I am a glore [‘pray’] khoep [‘man’] with Siiǁ’oa [‘God’].
NvR And Ma didn’t call us together when you became seventy nought seven… [inaudible]
RL There isn’t, but there isn’t marip [‘money’].
SB [quietly] This finger is hurting
Rl It is really from hand to mouth.
[laughing]
SB That’s true
RL The child has no money.
SB Only a ǀonku [‘child’].
RL Only a ǀonku.
SB Only ǀonku.
RL Don’t kai !’hoa [‘talk big’ gossip?]
SB No, ǀonku [‘child’]
RL No, I don’t want to, hmm-mm.
SB And the other day I hadn’t had food, and the ǀonku [‘child’] ǁ’amase [‘buy(s)’] [things] freely, when I heard plastic walking things, this is plastic, my feet are icy cold in the plastic shoes. This miss Bakae, plastic things, and she then said, ‟Probably my feet on the ground I buy too much, ǀonku.”
RL Yes!
SB “ǁ’ama [‘buy’] me ǁ’haboku-s [‘shoe-s’].” Then they buy me these plastic shoes.
[laughing]
RL That’s right, they have to get you ǁ’haboku.
SB Hey, these things are ice cold.
MM Woollen socks are what you need to keep your feet warm.
RL Oh dear, boerkjend, boerkjend, [boer child] we don’t have any…
SB No marip [‘money’], that money is too little. Ooh! Only food.
RL It is only from hand to mouth.
SB The electricity.
RL When I have paid my insurance policy…
SB Me too.
RL … and put that thing in…
SB The electricity. Then toãsi [‘finish’] the marip [‘money’].
RL O dear.
SB It is gone.
RL It’s gone.
SB The money is finished.
MM Hmm.
SB Then it’s gone.
RL Have you heard? Toãsi [‘finish(ed)’]
MM Hmm, mmm.
SB Toãsi
MM Toansi [sic]
SB Toãsi, then it’s gone.
RL That’s it, then it’s gone.
SB Hey, I’m ǁ’hae [‘hurry(ing)’] now, van Rooy.
RL We’ll ǁ’hae [‘hurry’].
SB The day is short [inaudible].
RL I have to let the old taras [‘woman’] ǁ’hae [‘hurry’] to her kx’ommi [‘house’].
SB Yes! Go on, go on ǁ’hae now.
MM But you wa…
SB You have to walk the khoep [‘man’], he still has to, has to go and sinsen [sic sĩsen ‘work’]
MM Ouma has scarcely arrived.
SB [inaudible] what? I don’t know that xuus [‘thing’], only the xuus [‘thing’] of mine.
RL Hmm.
SB You must still go and sĩsen [‘work’], you say?
…

…
MM Ouma Baby [RL] grew up here in Breipaal?
RL Yes.
MM Uh, and Ouma’s parents?
RL Here.
MM Here as well?
RL Yes.
MM Did everyone live here?
RL When we got up it was old Breipaal…
MM Hmm.
RL … where they fasten the oxhide to the tree…
MM Hmm.
RL … and bray [‘prepare for use, dress, (the skin of an animal)’] it using a stone…
MM Hmm.
RL … my mother grew up here. When I started noticing things I saw the oxhide was being brayed using a stone. I wasn’t a taras [‘young woman’] then, I was still a ǀoon [‘child’] and so I grew up. When I became a taras [‘young woman’], they let me ǃã [‘listen/hear’] in the ǀ’haba [? ‘hok’], in the kx’ommi [‘house’]. When I was out of there I knew I was now a taras [‘young woman’], not a ǀoon [‘child’] any more, taras because I too [can] ǃ’hae [sic ǁ’hae, ‘walk (around)’], khoep [‘man’] come ǃaba [‘look’] now and then, too. ‟Hey, this one is a pretty ǀoon [‘child’].” Hmm.
MM And Ouma, Ouma’s mother’s surname? What was Ouma’s mother’s surname?
RL My mother is a Morolong.
MM Morolong, okay.
RL Yes, my father is a Mintoor, I am a mixed-up blood, I am a mule. I am a ǁhosa [‘Xhosa’], I am an Afrikaner, yes.
MM Hmm.
RL Yes, these are two sides, hmm.
MM And what did they do? What kind of work did they do?
RL They were labourers, ordinary labourers. My mother worked in the kitchen, my father on the farm, looking after the sheep of doctor Joseph and we grew up here, here in Breipaal. My father worked on the farm, but my mother in town, in the kitchen. We ate boerkos [‘boer food’], do you know boerkos?
[laughing]
MM Yes, I do.
[laughing]
SB He knows it, he knows.
NvR Yes, we come from that mould [custom] of boerkos [boer food].
[laughing]
RL So we ate boerkos and uh when we were grown-up we worked harvesting potatoes, onions for Meerbos on Springfontein [?] and then came back. When I became strong [older] I also worked in the kitchen in doctor Joseph’s house, then Richard was big and…

…Alan, but the little brother…

…I brought up myself. He’s passed away now; they have all passed away, all of them. There aren’t any more of the Josephs, the doctor’s children… only Elina’s [children ?] are alive. And the Lord carried me until now. In… seventy six I went into detective, private investigating…
MM Hmm?
RL …I worked there. In ninety two I retired and became a housewife, then I ǁ’aaxae [‘married’], yes. I got a khoep [‘man’], and I ǁ’aaxae [‘married’]…
[laughing]
…because I couldn’t say young forever, I had to get out…
[laughing]
RL Now I am a housewife. The state owes me a few Rands, only from hand to mouth, and pay my insurance policy so that when I die, I will be buried nicely. Yes, here… hmm…
MM And Ouma Sara? Did you grow up here in Breipaal too?
SB Hmm-mm. Katlani [-29.119774134878377,23.581466674804688]
MM Katlani?
SB Hmm, on the other side of Swartrivier. [i.e. Orange River]
MM Hmm.
SB I grew up there.
MM And Ouma’s mother?
SB As well, m… mother.
MM Mother and father?
SB My father was a Eland and my mother was a Julies from…
MM Juliesvan? [sic]
SB My mother was…
RL Woman.
SB … a Julies
MM Hmm?
SB Woman, Julies, her surname, married, uh maiden name.
MM Hmm.
SB The married name was Eland, surname of my father, he was a Eland. Then we lived there…
RL You are dangerous antelope in the veldt.
MM Hmm!
[laughing]
RL Yes… But ǃ’hoa [‘speak’].
MM But taste…
RL ǃ’hoa [‘speak’]
MM They taste very good. Eland?
RL Oh! Don’t…
MM The best meat.
[laughing]
SB I don’t hear…
RL He-ey! This child is an old man! [inaudible]
SB I’m telling you he only wants to listen to what we say.
RL Yes!
[laughing]
Yes, yes.
SB He only wants to listen to what we say. Oooh… He’s… I’m telling you it is overflowing, that cup.
RL It’s running over
[laughing]
With goodness and mercy. [Psalm 23]
[laughing]
I am not talking any more, I have now finished talking, boerkind [‘boer child’].
SB Then we stayed there.
MM And what did Ouma’s mother and father do?
SB They worked.
MM Hmm, on the farm?
SB There on the farm, looked after sheep, there were kitchen maids there as well, [indistinct] but mother was already grown-up there at the house. My father herded sheep, like Ma Links said, there were fields and we worked during the harvest, we helped harvest. So I went out too, I was just…
RL So you could get a khoep [‘man’ i.e. husband].
SB Brood-, Broost-, Broodhoters-something…[trying to remember place/farm name] they were birip [‘Tswana’] places where I worked. Then I went to Hopeton [Hopetown], I worked on a farm there. Worked there for a long time, then I came back home, so I got an old khoep [‘man’] too.
RL And ǁ’aaxae-ed [‘married’].
SB And ǁ’aaxae-ed [‘married’] and ǂnũ-ed [‘sat’], I did after all…
RL And ǃ’hoa-ed [‘spoke’].
SB And ǁnoara-ed [‘bothered’] for the khoep [‘man’].
RL Hmm…
SB So that I…
RL And the ǀoona [‘children’].
SB So that I still sit with the khoep [‘man’], after all.
RL Hmm…
SB [S]’iiǁoa [‘God’] carried me through.
NvR Through everything.
SB Through everything, so that the two of us ǂnũ [‘sit’] like this, ǂnũ [‘sit’] like this now, we… we also get…
MM How old is Ouma now?
SB … we also get a little old CPS-sie after all. [Cash Payment Services, former SASSA-agent]
RL Hmm…
SB We get a little old CPS-sie, the khoep [‘man’] gets a CPS-sie as well, if it was only for the…
RL Now my khoep [‘man’] still ǃ’hae [‘go(es)’] there.
SB Where?
RL At the, at the, at the nǀuuna [‘boers’], hmm…
SB Sĩsen [‘work’]?
RL Hmm, at the nǀuunuka [‘boers’].
SB He still has enough strength to sĩsen [‘work’] for the nǀuunuka-s [‘boers’].
NvR Still scratching [a living].
SB Yes, he’s still digging and scratching and grabbing here. Do you know some are like…
RL Now the old taras [‘young woman’]is…
SB Now only sitting, ǂnũ [‘sit’].
RL She ǂnũ [‘sit(s)’].
SB That khoep [‘man’] must now grab [i.e. earn an income].
RL That khoep [‘man’] must now grab into the marib [‘money’].
SB Do you know when I sit like this, when I get that marip [‘money’] for the CPS, now ǂnũ [‘sit’] too, now I sit hee r ǃã [‘this I hear’], then I say, ‟Oh, Lord, why didn’t you give me strength so I could work for myself?‟ Your sweat is better than the CPS.
NvR [inaudible] receive.
SB Yes, your sweat is far better than your CPS. After having bought all your food you will see there is still a bit left. All of the CPS goes on food only.
NvR All gone
SB And for that thing, the policies. Then you still have to pay the policies of the ǀoon-s [‘children’]
NvR From that.
SB From that. What’s more, they don’t want to… They don’t kx’ai maa [? ‘give in’] to go sĩsen [‘work’].
RL Goodness!
SB Ooh… He ǃã [‘hears’] , he ǃã [‘hears’] that you have to ǂ’ũku maa [‘give food’] to him, you have to pay for that grave for him as well.
NvR Yes.
SB I always said, “ǃ’hae [‘go’] ǃ’hae, ǃ’hae, ǃ’hae. ǃ’hae, go ǂnũ [‘sit’]”, he goes, he’s gone.
RL You let him go.
SB Yes, he has to go sĩsen [‘work’] from him[self].
RL That’s right, that’s right.
SB Oh my, when I sit like this,‟Oh my, Siiǁ’oa [‘God’], why can’t you give me strength? So I can go sĩsen [‘work’] here among the nǀuunuka-s [‘boers’], among the boere [farmers].”
RL Will the nǀuunuka-s [‘boers’] still ask us ‟Come here, come and wash the windows”? I can’t stand on a chair anymore!
[laughing]
SB No, you have to work like this. He walks. You have to look for work and then van Rooy [NvR] works.
[laughing]
I want to tell him, I have to tell him, those taras [‘young woman’], nǀuuptaras-s [‘young boer women’] [pointing up] ‟Go!”
NvR Man… Then the other lady has to tell you, ‟No no no no, you will fall down. ”
SB Yes yes yes. No or else he becomes…
NvR “ Are there others who are better? ”
SB Yes.
RL Who can at least… hmm…
NvR Yes.
RL Hmm-mm, I don’t know, I am ‘out of order’ now.
[laughing]
SB Do you see, the nǀuup [‘boer’] is laughing?
RL I can’t anymore.
SB This nǀuup [‘boer’], he wants us to sit, he and old van Rooy. Huh! Our kx’ommi [‘house’], the khoep [‘man’ i.e. husband] comes in here, your khoep sĩsen [‘man work(s)’], he’s looking for ǂ’ũku [‘food’], he ǃã [‘hear(s)’], he sees here… ‟Why didn’t you sĩsen [‘work’]? The khoep [‘man’] [inaudible] can’t … ”
RL ‟No, the nǀuup [‘boer’] is here, now what? ”
[laughing]
Boer, kill that thing, I’m not going to talk anymore.
[laughing]
SB We have to work now! This, now this nǀuup [‘boer’]…
RL Hmm-mm, no boerkind [‘boer child’].
SB … comes here so early in the morning.
RL Kill it.
MM Must I switch it off?
SB Yes, switch off!
RL Kill the thing [lit. ‘kill him’], man!
MM Okay.
[laughing]
Who do I have to kill?
SB That thing.
MM The thing?
RL The the the, the talking thing.
SB Does the thing talk?
MM Why? Does it talk too much or too little?
RL No, really.
SB Can the thing speak?
MM Must I show you?
RL Show!
SB Show!

************