Ouma Anna Visser

Translation of Transcription of a recorded interview with Ouma Anna Visser, conducted by Martin Mössmer, with Oupa Poon van Rooy
Location: Breipaal, Douglas, Northern Cape
Date: 10 September 2018

MM = Martin Mössmer
AV = Ouma Anna Visser
NvR = Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
dV = Granddaughter of Ouma Anna Visser

MM We are in Douglas, Breipaal. We are talking to Ouma Anna Visser. Do I have your [AV] permission to make this recording? You just need to tell me so that it is clear that I am not coercing you – that there isn’t someone here with a gun [forcing you].
AV Yes
MM And do I have your permission to use these recordings, and to transcribe them?
AV Remember, I can’t speak it – the newspaper people’s pure Afrikaans.
MM No! I, ‘Pure’ Afrikaans…
AV No, I mean, the words all in their right place – my words are still a bit crooked [as the result of a stroke]
NvR No, don’t worry, we can understand you clearly
MM A hundred percent, don’t worry
AV Yes, a little crooked
NvR You don’t need to worry about that, you just need to talk chat to us, as you remember, as you feel you want to, about how you grew up
AV Look, we grew up differently, as you might say, we grew up ignorant [lit. ‘stupid’], but we’re wise here. We’re completely ignorant today, but in those years we were wise inside. I was a hokmeisie [‘female initiate’] in the hok [‘confinement enclosure’]. I went to school. I was probably in the hok for a week, while I was attending school. Your hair gets cut off, and you sit there [in the hok] for a few days. You don’t come out. Your food is brought into the room. And then on a certain day of this week, before you get taken out, they take rooiklip [red ochre], and then they uru [‘ritually clean’] you with it. To uru is to clean, the Griekwas call it uru. You are cleaned, by the oumas [‘old women’] – they’re all oumas. Then they wash you, until you’re gleaming. I strung my beads myself, white and red, I threaded little blocks of them. I wore them around my neck, like this, and like this, each way over my neck. And that evening, if they decide it’s time for you to come out on the same day, then the slaughtering [of sheep] begins [in preparation for the feast]. And that evening, all the old people come, everyone comes, they all come together –those that can– they all come together! Then there is feasting, and drinking. And not those nasty beers of today – homemade beer is what people drank then. And there is feasting and drinking. The people dance all night long. That hokmeisie, the old women go like this, they go take here out. Young men wait outside the door with their sticks, they wait here in front of the door. And then you come out, there are poles where they’re sitting, and you come and do this. Oh boy! Then the young men fall over each other, over you, and they take you back in, and they dance in outside the door, there is dancing the whole night. Without fighting, without swearing – things are very different today. That’s how we grew up. That’s how we were raised, not this other nonsense. And then I went to the river – the Vaal River. You go and sit like this, on your haunches. And two old women stand alongside you, with the little sticks. The [sheep’s] pelvis the old women eat the meat off it, they scrape everything clean off it. Clean. Then it is rubbed with rooiklip [‘ochre’], it gets put in a bag and bound up. And on that morning, that old woman takes that bone and goes down to the river. And as you are crouching there, before they hit the water, a particular ouma takes that bone and swings it around her head, she flings it, and you just see it fly [low whistle] into the water. And then she tells you that you are clean, and they hit the water with the sticks, on all sides, that side, this side, that side, this side. And they speak in their language [i.e. Xri]. Look, I don’t know what they said, they were speaking their language, the Griekwa language. And the thing is, the tribe, they say there is [one], but I don’t know if there’s a slang [Waterslang]. Have you [NvR] seen it?
NvR The Waterslang? Yes, it’s here and it stood up [out of the water], here at the neus [Vaal and Orange River confluence]. When there is that thunder, or that lightning, then it stands up [out of the water] there. Why I have believed it and seen it is because my mother told us about it. She was taken down to the river [as a hokmeisie], and when she got to the river they put a certain cloth over her, and she had beads on, and buchu. That cloth is the young girls sprei [cape or mantle ?]. We call it the sprei.
AV Yes
NvR And then they give her that thing. And that is what she said, she told me that people say that there is such a thing, there was, there is such a thing. Because then they came and took those beads off her. There were certain beads [around her neck] which they then took off.
AV Well, I had a little tortoise [shell]…
NvR Yes, the tortoise
AV …a little tortoise, you wear it over here
NvR The one with buchu [in it]
AV On your hip, you wear it. And here the old women are hitting the water. And by doing it the keep the slang away from you, so that it does not come close to you, so that it cannot come close by, then they keep it away, then they hit [the water], and the hit [it]. The water must fall like this…it must fall in front of you, like this…
NvR Yes…yes
AV …over your back. Then you are [have been made] right. Then they say, if that bone has disappeared, then the old women say that this girl is now clean, she hasn’t had any boyfriends. She is now purified. And that slang never bothers you again. In this way you come out [of the river], and are brought home, you come home. And at the houses we keep nothing of the things from the feast, it was all eaten the night before. And now the girl has to do this with the buchu [rub it in her armpits], and rub it into the men’s belly buttons, rub it in
NvR Yes [laughing]
AV And then the girl prepares drinking things, she brings drinking things to the people, she serves them –not food, drinking things– that’s how we were brought up.
NvR But as I understand you now, your parents did not speak to you in the [Xri] language
AV No, my parents didn’t speak the Griekwa language, my mother was a Griekwa woman, but…
NvR Yes, yes
AV …they didn’t speak Griekwa, you see?
NvR Didn’t speak it
AV There were certain [Xri] words
NvR Certain words yes, which they use
NvR Yes
AV Uh, |kammi [sic] is water
NvR It’s water, yes
AV And the Tswana say meetsi
NvR Meetsi
AV Water
NvR Water, yes
AV And if people want to say nasty things to you, they say “this biri|oos [‘Tswana woman’]”
NvR Yes
AV “This kaffermeid [‘Tswana woman’]”
NvR Yes
AV They say you’re an old kaffermeid
NvR Yes
AV You see? biri|xoos [sic]
NvR Yes
AV That’s kaffermeid
NvR Yes. And the, the boesman one, or the Griekwa one, that’s a kx’oos [sic]
AV Yes, |oos [‘woman’]
NvR Yes
AV |’haaxa|oos [‘troublesome woman’]
NvR Yes
AV !amku|oos [‘decent woman’]
NvR Yes
AV You see, just a few little words
MM What do those mean?
NvR You mean |oos?
AV !amku means a decent girl
NvR She’s decent
AV And |’haaxa [‘troublesome’] is one that is… [makes gesture]
I don’t want to be |’haaxa, look…
that’s a |’haaxa. Now that is when the old women say, “Hey, this girl is |’haaxa.” And here, the others, “No, this one is a !amku|oos, a decent girl child.”
NvR Yes, a decent girl
AV Her facts are in order [i.e. she has been initiated], d’you see?
AV That’s how I could [inaudible] I could speak of many more things, but I … (Hello)
NvR Yes
AV I can’t really seem to remember them right now
NvR And there where you used to, when you testified, shared, there are many women now who knead [bread], they don’t know the water [i.e. are uninitiated]
AV Yes
NvR That water, to… mmm…
AV Should I talk about that virtue…
NvR Yes, yes
AV …testify, what kneads [?] your virtue, out of her water
NvR Yes
AV And that water, you need to [get it] out, out, like sin-water. You knead it out!
NvR Yes
AV mmm
NvR Yes
AV I know many things, but I, I [laughs]
NvR No, we, we understand that’s the way things are, the two of us, we appreciate your depth of knowledge, your experience. Now, look, those who will come after us, the after-children of our children, they need to follow and listen to every…
AV Yes, of course
NvR …word, do you understand? So that |’haaxa-ness, they must understand that they are |’haaxa, they…
AV Yes, they’re |’haaxa
NvR …they must make themselves decent
AV !’amku, decent
NvR Yes. Like the way we used to sit, when we came to the fire, then we’d sit like that, that platsit [sitting on one’s haunches]
[laughing, tries to sit on his haunches]
they don’t sit like we sat – hear how my kneecaps crack!
(Man) Ja
NvR Now, look, they don’t sit when they come to a clean yard [outside a house, next to the skerm, where people sit and socialise], to the social area, the way we used to sit. You would sit on your haunches
AV On your haunches
NvR And you wouldn’t be offered a chair, but today’s children are
AV On your haunches, sitting on your haunches with your kneecaps up, on your haunches
NvR And when you platsit, you crouch, and if a lion were to come, you’d be able to see it and run away as it roars… [laughing] Those who sat like this, they would sit with their food bowl, and if the lion were to come then they could jump away, so that they could flee
AV Easily
NvR Yes
AV Move quickly
NvR Quickly. But now they get given chairs to sit on. Now you see, Ouma Anna, this is the thing, how we grew up, this is what we’d like to know about. So that these upstarts, these new children, so that they can know. That’s why we must raise them, in this way. They must be ‘made old’ [i.e. adults] now.
AV Well now, those two old Bloukop [surname] women who have passed away, I warned them once, but they tried to initiate a girl, but I told them, “You’ve become ignorant, you don’t know [how to do these] things anymore.” Like the meat [from the feast], it should not be kept
NvR Shouldn’t be kept
AV I see that people today put it in their fridge, no way
NvR Now that’s the history, that’s a real piece of knowledge, that many don’t know about now
AV That meat isn’t kept, today, not tomorrow, is when it gets eaten
NvR Eaten
AV That girl, the one of Moes [personal name]
NvR Yes
AV D’you know this story?
NvR Yes
AV They walked that child into the river, and she died in the water
NvR In the water
AV That’s when I told them, they’ve become ignorant
NvR They’ve become ignorant
AV They don’t know the [right way to do] things anymore
NvR That girl had already come to take my daughter [to be initiated], but then I think the spirit spoke to her, with that one of mine, and said “Don’t”, and she [the other girl] said “Just let me use me your shoes”, and then I left
AV Yes
NvR She said, “I’ll give you five rand”, and it was that same day that that child drowned, no [inaudible]
AV I said that day, I went and told her “You’ve become ignorant…”
NvR And that thing [the Waterslang] exists!
AV “…You don’t do things the way that they should be done anymore”
NvR Waterslang. It exists! If I were to go to the river with that child, that girl, and if she doesn’t come out of the water, it causes trouble
AV Yes
NvR The wind comes up
AV Now just look at what they did that day at Saalrug. They went and celebrated that girl’s coming of age in the community, with things that don’t exist [in our traditions]
NvR They do it the wrong way
AV Now that’s all that I know, at the moment, I might be able to tell you more another day
dV Tell them about timekeeping –that was always so wonderful for me– because the old people didn’t used to have watches, they worked on the sun’s time. I remember [you telling me] that from when I was a child.
NvR Yes
dV They knew exactly when it was midday
NvR Yes! We courted by the sun, too
AV Now, see, pastor, I’m telling this for Henna. You’d know when it was one o’clock
NvR Yes
AV We lived on the farm
NvR Yes
AV The shadows would tell you when it was one o’clock
NvR When it’s one o’clock
AV Just so. Now it’s one. You had to know, because our father would come home, to eat. It’s one o’clock.
NvR Our children who live here, they don’t even know where Franshoek [constellation?] is, where the Voorloperster is, they don’t know where the Aandster [Evenstar] is, they don’t know where the Dagster [Venus] is. There’s many that don’t know. And they also don’t know how the moon looks when a woman isn’t, can’t be visited [i.e. is menstruating]. They don’t know about that either. Now that’s the time we grew up in. We didn’t live with electric lights.
MM Mmm
NvR There are hemelstrate [the Milky Way?], which many don’t know. [laughing]
MM Mmm. Ouma Anna?
AV Uh?
MM Where were you born?
AV In Maselsfontein [Mazelsfontein -29.051667901581347,23.57872009277344]
NvR Also on Maselsfontein
AV Maselsfontein
MM Maselsfontein? Oh, OK. So near Bucklands?
NvR Down this way
AV This way, this way, along the white road
NvR Down this way with the…
MM Oh, OK, it’s on the other side of the river
NvR On the road to Griquatown
MM Mmm?
NvR The Griekwastad road
AV Look, here. There at the … Masels- lies across from the neus [the Orange and Vaal River confluence] – here’s the neus, here’s Maselsfontein
NvR Yes, yes, right there
AV I was born in 1933. ‘33
MM So, you’re 85?
AV The twentieth of February
MM Mmm. And for how long did you live there, on the farm?
AV We lived there as children, went to school there. We lived on the farm then, and… Look, in those days it was, the… That’s when the Company [Griqualand-West Diamond Mining Co.], they owned the farm
NvR Yes
AV You know what the Company is, don’t you?
NvR Yes, the Company
AV Now there were farms, you see, where people had sheep, and cattle-stations, all over, and then later Maselsfontein was no more. Nineteen, nineteen sixty.
NvR 1960s, yes
AV Then Maselsfontein… Then the Englishman sold the place, you see? The Englishman actually sold the companies. Then everyone moved away and spread out, each in their own direction… We went to Griquatown, and then later came back in this direction, until we ended up in Douglas. And I worked for a long time in the [inaudible] Douglas. And then everyone came together again, and the farms were claimed, the Griquas claimed the farm – the Griquas, so to speak – put in a claim. And now it’s our farm once again
NvR It’s ours again
AV Mmm. I was actually born there
NvR That’s right
AV Nineteen thirty-three
NvR Thirty
AV The twentieth of February. I remember that date, as clear as daylight.
NvR Yes
MM And your mother and father?
What was your mother’s maiden name?
AV Visser
MM Also Visser?
dV No, the maiden name, mom
MM The maiden name?
AV The maiden name is Visser
MM Also Visser?
AV Yes
dV Isn’t it Minnies…
AV No man. The Minnies were my mother’s aunts and uncles
dV Oh
AV My mother’s a Visser. Christine Visser.
NvR Visser
dV Oh
AV My father is Frans Vos. Vos.
MM Vos
dV Oh
MM And, where did they work? Also there on Maselsfontein?
AV Maselsfontein. I couldn’t tell you where they were born. Look, like I said, we aren’t like today’s Facebook-children
I know my father came from Schmidtsdrift, see? They came here as children, and worked, and… As for my mother, she’s from Griekwaland
AV The far western part of Griqualand. On past Maselsfontein, and… But I don’t know where exactly my mother was born, see? It’s not something I can remember. It’s the age, it [the memory] has left me
NvR Oh, yes
AV Because if my mother, my father, would come in and tell me “This is your uncle”, then you had to believe that he was your uncle
NvR Yes
AV I would not ask where he comes from.
NvR Yes, yes. The same as me.
AV Yes! Look, today [people say], “But who is this? [greetings in background] I don’t know this person.” D’you see?
NvR Yes.
AV No. We didn’t [do that]. If he’s your uncle, then that’s an end to it, he is your uncle.
NvR He’s your uncle
AV You don’t ask where he came from and how he came to be here, he’s just your uncle.
NvR Yes. Now, you see, I’m a van Rooyen. My mother’s father was a van Rooyen. And it was the error [lit. ‘short-circuit’] of old Morgan [the official who classified people and gave them Identity Documents], he just made me into a van Rooy
AV Mmm
NvR I am van Rooy. My parents are, my mother’s father is a van Rooyen. Now, I wanted to get my surname back, as I told you. I can’t get it back, because then I’d have to go and pay money [to do it].
AV No, just leave it the way it is.
NvR And I’m just the way I am now. I am a van Rooyen. D’you see?
AV So, this is probably all we can [talk about] here, I know a lot more, I have more that I can tell you about, how I grew up in the farms, and walked, how we ate Sweet Thorn-gum, how we ate berries. On that same Maselsfontein. How we milked sheep, black sheep, milked [them], and drank that coffee [with sheep’s milk]. Many things. But I can’t remember everything clearly. The stroke took a part of me.
NvR Yes. No, that’s alright.
AV And I can’t dance any more on my things [legs]…
NvR Yes
AV This Nǀaras [name?] my, my little baby sister, she’s passed away now. When she came out of the hok. That night we danced all night long. And I was pregnant with my third child. Danced all night, that night on the farm.
Lekker days, oo! Lekker days!
NvR That’s right, ouma.
AV So? Are you [MM] finished now?
MM Yes, I… Is there anything else you’d like to tell us, any stories or anything?
AV Pardon?
MM Do you have a story about something that you’d like to tell, about something you did or experienced?
AV When we [inaudible], we ate Sweet Thorn-gum, often not berries. Look, they call them kafferbessies [The fruit of Grewia flava], those brown berries.
NvR Yes, those brown berries
AV From the little pale tree
NvR The ǃung-berry, that’s what they call it
AV Yes. Saturday morning we go – on the same Maselsfontein – we go there by the, you [NvR] know where the birip [‘Tswana’] farm is, don’t you?
NvR Yes, the Tswana farm…
AV We picked berries there. Berries. And those things, I knew how to pick them
NvR pick them…
AV Berries. And d’you know, when you’re picking them, you can’t just put them in your mouth, haa! You won’t leave there again [because they are so delicious]
To put them straight in your mouth, into your mouth. Tonight, on that same game farm, there we milked the sheep
NvR Sheep
AV Those blue [i.e. black-headed] Dorper [sheep]
NvR Those blue Dorper [sheep]
AV Eh, thingy ewes. We milked sheep
NvR Karakul sheep
AV Karakul, yes. We would milk sheep, without fighting along the way, without swearing at each other. Today’s children can’t hold their tongues
NvR Goodness
AV They hurl insults, insults at “your mother”
NvR And murder each other, and things like that
AV Not in those years, we had lekker lekker days. We ate Sweet Thorn-gum in the trees along the river. Nobody here eats that gum anymore
NvR No, not at all. I see them looking at it strangely, hanging here and there. And then I say, “Hey, we used to eat this stuff”
AV Look at my teeth, it’s the Sweet Thorn-gum that made my teeth look this way
Gum. D’you know, I could talk a lot about the hokmeisie, but I seem to be losing things [memories]
NvR All those things
MM When did you come here to Breipaal?
AV In the seventies
MM Why?
AV Well see, I was married here, and you follow wherever the husband leads you
Wherever he leads
MM So was he from Breipaal?
AV We worked here, all around here, on the farms. Look, I worked here, for that Boer lady, Marie Badenhorst. You see, here just before the pharmacy you turn [right] up the street
NvR Up the road, yes
AV I worked there. Marie Badenhorst, Stoffel Badenhorst [her husband]
AV Worked there, and then I was on Maselsfontein for nineteen years. And then Maselsfontein was no more, then we came back to [work in] the house, see. Because each of us had to see where we could scratch out a living [lit. scratch out a nest]
NvR It’s true
AV That’s how we ended up in the Griquatown area, and then back to the area around Douglas. And the last place I lived was on Monterra [sic, Bon Terra -29.06097140738389,23.724632263183583], [inaudible] Josephs, Monterra. That was my last farm. And then I came to Douglas, but I never moved out again. That was my last farm. Monterra. I didn’t go work on any more farms after that. I did harvest work, this and that. Actually ruined myself doing harvest work for [inaudible] In the house, struggled in that life [?]
NvR True
AV You can’t just hang about
NvR You work, you work hard
AV That ǀamku woman, she can’t just hang about. Your fingers itch, you have to work, hmm.
NvR Oh, my, ouma Anna
AV I look at today’s young girls, and I say “Truly… today? Being young? No ways.”
NvR Indeed, the young man-children make me sick. And then you hear they have a wife [already]
AV Yes
NvR He talks about “my wife”
AV The cheek! [lit. ‘and how does his mouth taste’]
Ai, we had lekker, lekker, lekker days. Those were hard days, and they were good days.
NvR There were difficult times. But that’s what I mean
AV I think, one year when I was on Monterra, that Christmas. And my husband and the others, we [take turns to] throw [a Christmas party] for each other, see? That Christmas it was the others’ turn to throw [host] the party. And then I ate dunpap [maize gruel], that Christmas. I said to my child, “Here, eat [?] this is all there is for everyone”
NvR Everyone
AV That watery porridge
NvR That watery porridge
AV And now, today’s children, “Oh! It’s old bread” and if it’s not bread, “It’s old food”, heeey!
NvR And only from the day before
AV Man!
And [other times] we had meat to eat, d’you hear?
NvR Wow!
AV Thick joints, backbones. You’d have to bite it, and hold it in two hands [it was that big]. And then hard times would come again. Just like in the Bible, with old Ephraim’s wife.
NvR Yes
AV [inaudible] neither satisfied with the good, nor with the bad
NvR It’s also just about the good [times]
AV You have to accept [it], each thing as it comes, you have to accept [them]
NvR Yes
MM In the old days, where did they bury people? On the farm?
AV Yes, well, each where they live, there where they died, they’d be buried on the farm
NvR There’s a burial place, on the farm
AV But here in town you go to the graveyard
NvR To the graveyard, yes
AV Over the bridge, and buried. Back on the farms everyone that died on a farm was buried there, yes
NvR Buried right there
AV They were buried there
NvR And now the farmers say everyone must come and lie [i.e. be buried] here in town. Recently, three months ago, someone came from the farm, because the Boer didn’t want him to be buried there, and so he had to be buried here, in town.
AV Yes, that’s what they do. They do that. But people used to bury people that way, if you died on the farm… But we fortunately didn’t have deaths on the farms, see?
NvR No, not so many. We started [dying] here in town.
AV Yes
MM And, when someone dies, is something special done before they’re buried?
AV Pardon?
MM What do they do when someone dies and needs to be buried?
AV No, we just do church[es]. And then burial. Is that what you want to know?
NvR There are fridges here now, fridges [for the corpses]
AV Well, not in those days, you had to be buried within three days. If you lived on the farm, and a body came, if someone had died in the hospital, then the body would go to the mortuary. It would stay there for the week, until Saturday, and then the family would go and fetch it, to bury it [on the farm]. Like here. [Dead] people have to lie there [in the mortuary] until the Saturday morning.
NvR If they die at home, then they must lie from Wednesday up until Friday, and then they are buried. But if they die after Wednesday then they get put in the mortuary
AV They get put in there
NvR Then we have to bury them the following week
AV But they also say things are different today
NvR You mean with…
AV There’s ash-air [cremation?] now
NvR And there are all the, these things, doing things. There are WhatsApps, and Facebook and, oh, these things!
AV Do you [NvR] know how ignorant I am now? Here’s my phone
“Hey, whats-your-name, come here! Come put me through to a number!”
Hey! Lord, the things I have to do myself! And if you get the thingy, the thingy, the air-thing, to put it in or whatever, see? When you buy a ticket, the power [i.e. an airtime voucher, ‘power’ as in electricity]
NvR The power
AV [I] can’t load it. I’m too ignorant now! I did that whole [inaudible] myself, wow! And I tell other people, “I didn’t think I’d get to where I am now”, wow! But I mast be thankful
NvR That’s true, just be thankful. Yes, ouma.
AV And as I sit here, I truly wish that, before I die, that there is a lekker hokmeisie [celebration] held, somewhere!
NvR Yes
Av Look, they don’t want to be in the hok these days
NvR They say they don’t belong in the hok
AV They says they aren’t chickens
NvR But they don’t know that they’re casting out their luck!
AV It’s dying out now, they won’t be able to come out of the hok
Ooh, yes oh my goodness. I’d prefer to do my things myself, I always walked to town myself, by foot, and I’d do my shopping. From Monterra I’d walk to town on a Saturday morning, and carry my things on my head back to the farm. It wasn’t a problem for me. And now? Wow!
I’m as weak as a chicken now [lit. ‘chicken-weak’]! But I should be thankful.
NvR That’s true
AV Be thankful to the Lord
NvR Thankful for everything
AV That’s how it is. Probably finished now?
MM Almost, almost.
When you were little, who still spoke Xri?
AV I said that I couldn’t speak it much
MM No, I mean other people, like your parents, or aunts or and uncle
AV Well, see, my mother didn’t really speak Xri to us, understand? She just used individual words on their own
NvR Yes, just here and there
AV Said words like that, and I remember those words now. Like ǀamku [‘decent’], when we talk about a ǀamku-woman or -girl, and the dance things
NvR “Pick up your xabakas [crockery, dishes], get your xabakas ready,” like that. Like that man who we buried recently, the people and the children gave him the name xabakas, and they wanted to know [why]. And then I told them, “Well, xabakas is crockery and that sort of thing”
AV Yes, lots of people… Now, the one of my woman [i.e. my daughter’s husband], he’s not quite right in the head, he doesn’t like that word xabakas
So I tell him, “No, it’s not a swearword, it’s dishes. Pick up those xabakas.” But he takes it as an insult.
I say to him, “No, it’s not swearing”
NvR Yes
AV ǀ’ammi is water, ǀoos is woman, birip is a man [sic ‘Tswana man’], nǀuib is fat, gǀanni is meat, those are the few things I know, but I didn’t learn it deeply
NvR Not deeply. It’s the same for me, just what my grandmother gave us, and she was a black woman. My mother-in-law gave it to us, but only weakly, and then she died
AV Yes
NvR But now, now we’re interested in it, now we need to learn it
AV Yes, even just single words
NvR Yes, just one thing
MM And if someone is sick, what does one say?
AV If one’s sick?
MM Mmm
NvR He’s kaesen [sic]
AV Yes, he’s ǀaesen, he’s unwell, he’s sick. That I remember, at least. ǀaesen
MM And a lion?
NvR No…
MM I ask everyone [how to say ‘lion’], but nobody has been able to tell me yet. I know what it is, but I’m waiting for someone to tell me
NvR To tell you, yes
MM If you say xam[mi] that’s a lion
AV Oh, is it?
MM But there haven’t been lions around here for a long time, nobody needs to know what a lion is
AV No, but one should know, and when you see one, one day, you can say “yeeees”
NvR “Here’s the xam[mi]”
MM OK, I’d like to thank you very much


Transcription of a recorded interview with Ouma Anna Visser, conducted by Martin Mössmer, with Oupa Poon van Rooy
Location: Breipaal, Douglas, Northern Cape
Date: 10 September 2018

MM = Martin Mössmer
AV = Ouma Anna Visser
NvR = Oupa Niklaas (Poon) van Rooy
dV = Granddaughter of Ouma Anna Visser

MM Ons is in Douglas, Breipaal. Ons praat met Ouma Anna Visser. Um. Het ek ouma se toestemming om hierdie opname te maak? Ouma moet net vir my sê sodat hulle kan sien ek dwing nie ouma nie, daar’s niemand hier met ‘n geweer nie.
AV Ja.
MM En ek het ouma se toestemming dan om die opnames te gebruik, en af te skryf?
AV Onthou ek kan nie dit praat nie – die koerant se mense praat suiwer Afrikaans.
MM Nee! Ek, ‘suiwer’ Afrikaans…
AV Nee, ek meen nou, sien jy die woorde agter mekaar – my woorde is nog bietjie skeef en krom
NvR Nee ouma, ouma ons weet wat jy praat
MM Honderd percent, moenie bekommer nie
AV Ja, bietjie skeef en krom
NvR Ouma moenie daaroor kommer nie, ouma praat da’em net soos ouma net soos met ons gesels, soos ouma getuig daarso, ouma praat dan net soos ouma bemoedig, net soos ouma groot geword het.
AV Kyk ons het soos die een nou sê, anderster groot geword dom groot geword, maar ons is wys hier. Ons is vandag heeltemal dom, maar daai jare was ons hier binnekant wys. Ek was ‘n hokmeisie gewees in die hok. Ek het skool gegaan. Ek was seker ‘n week in die hok, maar ek gaan nou nog skool. Dan word jou hare nou mos nou af gesny, dan sit jy daar ‘n paar dae. Jou kommie uitie. Jou kos gaan in kamer toe. En dan ‘n sekere dag hier in die week voordat jy nou uigehaal word, dan vat hulle rooiklip, dan uru hulle jou. uru is skoonmaak, die Griekwas sê uru. Jy word skoon gemaak, die oumase – hulle’s oumase. Dan was hulle jou, blink uit was. My krale het ek self ingereig, wit en rooi, sulke blokkies ingereig. Ek het hulle om my nek gedra, so, en so, anders ommie nek. En daai aand as hulle nou besluit hulle haal jou uit, soos, soos vandag, dan word geslag, dan word geslag. Vanaand, dan kom die ou mense, almal, die mense kom by mekaar – die wat kan kom – kom by mekaar, nè. Dan word geëet, dan word gedrink. Ook nie soos die lelike biere van vandag nie – gemaakte bier het die mense daai jare gedrink. Dan word geëet en gedrink. Die mense dans die hele se nag. Daai hokmeisie, gaan gaan die oumase, loop haal hulle hom uit. Jong manne wag nou hier voor die deur met die kieriese, hulle wag nou hier voor die deur. Nou kom jy uit, dis so pale waar hulle sit [?], kom maak jy hierso. Jong! Dan val die jong manne oor mekaar, oor jou, vat hulle jou terug in, dans hulle hier voor die deur, vir die nag word gedans. Sonder baklei, sonder vloek – soos vandag se goeters is anderster. So’t ons groot geword. So’t ons klaar gemaak, en nie ander gemors. Toe het ek rivier toe gegaan – die Vaal Rivier. Nou gaan sit jy mos nou so, op my, op jou hurke sit jy. Dan staan twee oumas hierso, met die stokke. Die kruisbeen, die oumas eet hom, hulle, hulle kap hom, kry hy so, eet hom skoon af. Skoon-skoon. Dan word hy rooiklip gesmeer, dan word hy in ‘n sak gesit, dan word hy vesgemaak. Daai môre vat daai ouma daai klip, daai been, gaan hy rivier toe met hom. Voor jy, voor jy, ja, jy sit nou al, voor laat jy water slaat, laat val ‘n sekere ouma daai, daai, daai been, loop swaai jy hom so, skiet jy hom, jy sit en kyk so dan sien jy hoe gaan daai been [low whistle] in die water in. Dan sê daai ouma laat jy’s skoon, dan slaat hulle nou die water, alkant, hierdie kant, die kant, hierdie kant, die kant, met die latjiese. En praat nou hulle taal. Kyk ek weet nou nie wat hulle praat nie, hulle praat hulle taal, Grukwataal. E, de, ding is nou, die stam, hu-hulle sê daar, ek weet nie is daar ‘n slang nie. Het jy hom nou al gesien?
NvR Die, die waterslang? Ja, hy is hier, en hy, hy’t opgestaan, hier, hier, hier by die neus. As dit was daai dag daai donderweer is, of daai wind is, of daai, dan staan daar gaan hy op. Hoekom ek dit gegloo het en gesien het, omdat my ma o’k dit vir my, vir ons gesê het. Hy was afgevat na die rivier toe, toe sy by die rivier kom toe het hulle so ‘n, ‘n sekerlike doek op hom gesit, en krale aan, boegoe. Nou, daar was nou die djong meisie se, se, se, se, se sprei. Ons noem hom die sprei.
AV Ja.
NvR Dan gee hulle nou vir hom daai ding. En dit is wat hy gesê het, toe sê hy vir my die mense sê daar’s die ding, daar was, daar was, daar is daar so ding. Want dan toe kom hulle vat hulle die daai krale van hom af. Daar’s sekerlike krale wat opgesit het wat hulle af gevat het.
AV Nou, ek het nou so skilpadjie gehet…
NvR Ja, die skilpad.
AV …klein skilpadjie, jy drag hom hierso.
NvR Die boegoe eene
AV In jou heup, dra jy hom. Nou hier slaat die oumas ‘ie water. Kyk, e, e, as keer hulle die slang weg van jou af, laat hy nie naby jou kom nie, dat hy nie moet naby aan kom nie, dan keer hulle hom weg, dan slaat hulle, slaat hulle. Die water moet so… voor jou val, so…
NvR Yes… ja
AV …anderkant jou rug, die water. Dan jy nou reg. Dan sê, as daai been geverloor, dan sê daardie oumas nou, dié meisiekind is skoon, hy’t nog’ie boifrens gehet ‘ie. Hy’s silwer skoon nou. En daai slang pla jou o’k’ie weer’ie. Hmm. So kom jy nou uit, word jy uit gebring huistoe, jy kom huistoe. Ons hou hier by die huise, hou niks wat geëet word nie, die goed is gisteraand opgeëet. Nou moet die meisiekind daai boegoe so maak, [in] die manne se nale so druk, so druk
NvR Yes [laughing]
AV Dan maak daai meisiekind nou drinkgoed, maak drinkgoed vir die mense, hy bedien hulle – nie kos’ie, drinkgoed – so’t os groot geword.
NvR Maar dis soos ek nou, e, soos ek nou vir ouma nou so verstaan, kyk dan, dan het u ma’lle no’ nie vir ouma op die taal dit vir ouma genoem nie
AV Nee, my ma’lle’t nie Griekwataal, my ma is ‘n Griekwa vrou, maar…
NvR Ja, ja
AV Hulle’t’ie Griekwa gepraat’ie, sien jy?
NvR ‘praat’ie
AV Dis sekere woorde
NvR Dis sekerlik ja, wat hulle in bring
NvR Ja
AV Uh, uh, |kammi [sic ǁ’ammi ] is mos’ie water
NvR Dis’ie water, ja
AV En die Tshwana sê meetsi
NvR Meetsi
AV Water
NvR Water, ja
AV En, as, as, as’ie mense wil vir jou lelike goed wil sê, dan sê hulle “hie’die biri|oos [biri- ‘Tswana’, |oos ‘vrou’]”
NvR Jê
AV “Hierdie kaffermeid”
NvR Yes
AV Hulle sê jy’s ‘n ou kaffermeid
NvR Ja
AV Sien jy? biri|xos [sic]
NvR Ja
AV Dis kaffermeid
NvR Ja. Nou, die, die, die boesman een, of die Griekwa eene, dis mos nou ‘n kxos [sic]
AV Ja, |oos
NvR Yes
AV n|axa [sic ǀ’haaxa ‘onrein’] |oos
NvR Ja
AV |’amku [‘ordentlik’] |oos
NvR Yes
AV Sien jy, so, so, net daai paar woordjies
MM Wat, wat beteken daai
NvR Die |oos?
AV |amku is nou agteremekaar meisiekind
NvR Jy’s agtermekaar
MM Oukei
AV En n|axa is daai een wat só…
Ek wil’ie n|axa is’ie, kyk’ou
‘is ‘n n|axa daai. Nou daai, die, die oumas sê, “Hei, die miesiekind is n|axa.” Hier, die ander, “Nee, hierdie, is ‘n, is ‘n, is ‘n |amku ǃos [sic] die, ‘n g-, ‘n agtermekaar meisiekjind”
NvR Ja, agtermekaar meisiekind
AV Sy feite is agter mekaar, sien jy?
AV So’t ek kon, [inaudible] ek kan baie dinge nog praat, maar ek – hallo –
NvR Ja
AV Ek kan so lekker in kom nou nie
NvR En daar wat ouma altyd, as ouma so getuig, so bemoedig, daar’s mos nou baie vrouense wat gnie [?] hulle ken nie die water’ie
NvR Om daai water uit te d-, mmm…
AV Moet ek sê van daai deug…
NvR Ja, ja
AV …bemoedig, wat jou deug gnie, uit haar water
NvR Ja
AV En daai water moet jy uit, uit, soos sonde-water. Hy gnie hom uit!
NvR Uit, ja
AV Mmm
NvR Yes
AV Ek het baie dinge, maar ek, ek… [laughs]
NvR Nee, o’s, ‘it, dit, o’s, ons verstaan nou dit is nou ouma, ons twee, sien ouma se, die standaard van ouma, waar is ouma nou. Nou, kyk, die, die opvolgings onse kinders se nakinderse, hulle moet opvolg en luister na elke…
AV Ja, natuurlik
NvR …woord, verstaan ouma? So, daai nǁaxa-geid [sic] hy moet verstaan hy’s ‘n, hy’s nǁaxa [sic] hy…
AV Ja, hy’s nǀaxa
NvR …hy moet hom regkry
AV ǃamkus [sic] agtermekaar
NvR Ja. Dan, soos ons altyd kom gesit’et as ons altyd by die vuur kom, dan sit o’s o’s mos nou daai, platsit
NvR Nou, die, die, dis nou jammer oor dit. Nou sien ek die, die, die jongmannetjiese, kyk, hulle sit mos nie meer op hulle se – ai, here, my kniekoppe kannie –
hulle sit’ie soos ons’ie – hoor hoe kraak my kniekoppe
(Man) Ja
NvR Nou, kyk, hulle sit’ie as hulle by die skoon werf, by die vry werf kom’ie, soos ons gesit het’ie. En jy sit op jou hurke
AV Op jou hurke
NvR En daar word nie stoel getjee nie, vandag sinne word stoel gegeee
AV Op jou hurke, daai hurke is daai kniekoppe, die hurke, jou hurke
NvR As hy ook platsit, hy sit plat o’k, sowaar as wat hier kom die leeu, hy luister net soos’t skreeu, kom… [laughing] Nou daai wat so gesit het, hulle sit met bak in, as daai oom daar uit kom dan spring hy oor, dan spring hy uit, kyk, laat hy kan op vlië
AV Reeds
NvR Ja
AV Vinnig beweeg
NvR Vinnig. Nou, hulle word nou stoele gegee. Nou sien ouma dit is nou die groot, hoe ons groot geword het, dit is wat ons wil vraag. Laat hierdie, uh, die aankommerse, die laatkinderse, hulle moet nou kom sien die goeterse. Daarom moet o’s hulle maar so ou, soos hierdietjiese. Hulle moet nou ge-ou word.
AV Want ek het, nou, die twee Bloukop oumatjies is hulle al oorlede, toe sê ek hulle daai dag, toe haal hulle ‘n meisiekind uit die hok, toe sê ek vir hulle “Julle’t dom geword, julle ken nie meer goeterse.” Daai vleis, pastoor, word’ie gebêre nie
NvR Bêre nie
AV Ek sien vandag se mense sit dit in hulle yskaste, huh-uh
NvR Ja, nou dit is daai geskiedenis, dis ‘n groot iets daai, wat baie nie van weet nie.
AV Daai vleis word nie gebêre nie, hy word vanaand, nie môre nie, vanaand opgeëet.
NvR Opgeëet.
AV Daai meisiekind, daai van Moes
NvR Ja
AV Pastoor weet daai ding?
NvR Ja
AV Daai kind is in die rivier ingeloop, hy’s dood in die water
NvR In die water
AV Toe se ek vir haar, julle’t dom geword
NvR Hulle’t dom geword
AV Hulle ken nie meer die goed nie
NvR Daai meisiekind het dan reeds my meisiekind kom gevat, maar toe lyk hy my toe praat die gees met hom, saam met daai eene van my, “Moenie”, toe sê hy “Man, leen my net jou skoene”, toe loop ek
NvR Hy sê “Ek sal jou vyf rand gee”, en dit is daai sel’e dag, soos ouma sê, dat daai kind mos nou loop verdrink het, nee [inaudible]
AV Ek het daai dag gesê, ek het daar loop gesê “Julle’t dom geword”
NvR Nou daai ding bestaan!
AV “Julle doen nie meer die goete soos dit moes gedoen word nie”
NvR Waterslang. Hy bestaan! As ek nou, as ek met die kind rivier toe gaan, met daai eene, as sy nie uit die water uitgekom het nie, hy loop maak moeilikgeid
NvR Die wind is nou daar
AV Kyk, kyk wat als het hulle gemaak daai dag by Saalrug. Toe loop vier daai kind se dinges in die gemeenskap, goete wat nie bestaan nie
NvR Dis nie wat daar gebeur nie
AV Dis nou al wat ek weet, so ver, anderdag as ek weer iets nuut bring
dV Praat van die tyd o’k – daai was altyd vir my so mooi – want die ou mense het nie horlosies gehad’ie, nè, hulle’t op die son se tyd gewerk. As kind onthou ek dit.
NvR Ja
dV Hulle geweet presies wanneer is dit twaalfuur
NvR Yes! Ons het gevry o’k op’ie son
AV Nou sien, pastoor, hier’s nou vir Henna, nè. Jy weet wanne’r is’it eenuur
NvR Yes
AV O’s’et in’ie plasie gebly
NvR Yes
AV Die skadu’t vir jou gesê wanne’r is’it eenuur
NvR Wanne’r’s eenuur.
AV Persies. Daar’s’ie horlosies [inaudible] mis tyd’ie
NvR Daar was’ie tyd’ie, jy kannie mis tyd nie
AV Persies. Nou eenuur. Julle moet tel [?] want julle se pa kom nou huis toe, kom eet. Dis eenuur.
NvR Van hier van ons se kin’erse, meneer, wat eers’ie weet waar is Franshoek’ie, waar is wie’s die Voorloperster’ie, hulle weet’ie wat is’ie Aandster’ie, hulle weet’ie wie’s die Dagster’ie. Daar’s baie wat’ie weet’ie. En hulle weet o’k as’ie hoe dit’ie maan wane’r die vrou nie, ‘n meisie, nie kan gesien word’ie. Hulle weet’ie van daai o’k’ie. Nou o’s het in daai tyd in nog groot geword. O’s het met die lig geloop.
MM Mmm
NvR Hier is hemelstrate, wat baie nie weet nie. [laughing]
MM Mmm. Ouma Anna?
AV Uh? (Is hulle ou daar)
MM Waar is ouma gebore?
AV In Maselsfontein [Mazelsfontein -29.051667901581347,23.57872009277344]
NvR O’k in Maselsfontein.
AV Maselsfontein
MM Maselsfontein? O, oukei. So Bucklands se kant?
NvR Hier af
AV Hier af, af, met die wit pad
NvR Hier af met…
MM O, oukei, dis die ander kant van die rivier
NvR Met Griekwastad se pad
MM Hmm?
NvR Griekwastad se pad
AV Kyk, hier. Daar by die… Masels lê reg oor die neus – hier’s die neus, hier is ons
NvR Ja, ja, reg daar
AV Neentien-drie-en-dertig is ek gebore. Drie-en-dertig
MM So ouma is eighty-five
AV Twintigste, twintigste Ag-… Februarie.
MM Mmm. En hoe lank ouma daar gebly op’ie plaas?
AV O’s het daar gebly mos, as kinderse gebly, skool gegaan daar. Toe’t ons op die plaas gebly, en… Kyk, daai is dit nou so, die… Toe’t die Company mos nou, die kompanie die plek gehet
NvR Ja
AV Jy weet mos wat’s die Company?
NvR Ja, die Company
AV Nou daar’s, is daar plase, sien jy, wat die mense met skape en die veeposte, staan veeposte, en toe’s Maselsfontein later tot niet. Neentien, neentien-sestig.
NvR Neentien-sestigs, ja
AV Toe’s Maselsfontein… Toe verkoop die Engelseman, sien jy? Eintlik het die Engelsman die Companies laat verkoop. Toe sprei ons nou weer uit mekaar uit, elk in sy rigting… O’s is later in Griekwastad, hier, en weer geterugkom tot o’s hier in Douglas is. En ek het lank hier gewerk in die [inaudible] Douglas. Toe’t o’s weer bymekaar gekom, toe word die plases nou ge-eis, toe eis die Griekwas nou die plaas – sê maar die Griekwas – het ‘n eis geplaas. Dis nou onse plaas weer opnuut daai
NvR Hy’s nou weer terug
AV Mmm. Ek’s eintlik daar gebore.
NvR Dit’s reg.
AV Neentien-drie-en-dertig.
NvR Dertig
AV Die twintigste Februarie. Daai datum onthou ek soos ligdag.
NvR Yes
MM En ouma se ma en pa?
Wat was ouma se ma se nooiensvan?
AV Visser.
MM Visser, ook?
dV Nee, die nooiensvan, nana.
MM Die nooiensvan?
AV Die nooiensvan is Visser.
MM Ook Visser?
MM Oukei
dV Is dit nie Minnies…
AV Nee, man. Die Minnies is my ma se antiese, en oomse
dV O
NvR Oukei.
AV My ma’s ‘n Visser. Christine Visser.
NvR Visser.
dV O
AV My pa’s Frans Vos. Vos.
MM Vos
dV O
MM En, um, wat het, waar’t hulle gewerk? Ook daar op Maselsfontein?
AV Maselsfontein. Ek kan nou nie sê waar kom hulle uit’ie. Kyk, ons is nie soos nou, soos ek gesê het, die Facebook kin’ers nie.
My pa weet hy kom van Smitdrif af, sien jy? Hulle’t as kind hier in gekom, en gewerk, en… Nou, my ma’s maar van Griekwaland
NvR Oukei, oukei
AV Onder-Griekwaland. Maselsfontein hier af, en… Maar ek weet nou nie waar’s my ma gebore nie, sien? Dis nie goed wat ek kan sê nie. Dis mos die ouderdom, hy’t uitgegaan
NvR O, ja ma
AV Want my ma-, my pa-hulle, as hy hier nou inkom, hier, en my pa sê vir jou, “Dis jou oom die”, dan moet jy glo dis jou oom.
NvR Ja
AV Ek sal nie vra waar hy vandaan kom nie.
NvR Ja, Yes. Soos ekke, soos ekke.
AV Ja! Kyk, kyk vandag, “Nee, wie’s die? [greetings in background] Ek ken nie die mens nie.” Sien jy?
NvR Ja (Hallo moeder)
AV Nee. O’s het’ie. As’t jou oom is, uit en oor is jou oom.
NvR Is jou oom.
AV Jy sal nie vra waarvan af kom en hier’s hy nie, dis jou oom.
NvR Yes. Nou sien ouma Anna, ek is nou, ek is ‘n van Rooyen. My ma se pa is ‘n van Rooyen. Nou maar by die kortsluit van ou Morgan, toe maak hy vir my sommer ‘n van Rooy
AV Mmm
NvR Ek is van Rooy. My ouers is, my ma se pa is ‘n van Rooyen. Nou, ek wil my van terug gekry het, soos ek vir die meester gesê het. Ek kan hom nie terug kry nie, want dan moet ek nou tjeld betaal.
AV Nee, los hom maar so, los hom maar so.
NvR Dat ek nog net so is. Ek is ‘n van Rooyen, ja. Sien ouma?
AV So, dis sekerlik al wat ons hier kan, ek het nog baie, ek het baie wat ek kan praat, hoe’t ek in die plase groot geword, en geloop, hoe’t ons gomme geëet, hoe’t o’s bessiesse geëet. Daai sel’de Maselsfontein. Hoe’t o’s skape gemelk, swart skape, gemelk, en daai koffie gedrink. Baie dinge. Maar ek kannie so als meer onthou nie, man. Die stroke het mos deel van my gevat.
NvR Ja. Nee maar dis reg ouma.
AV Maar ek kan nog’ie meer dans op my dinge…
NvR Ja
AV Hie’ nǀaras [?] my, my babysittertjie [? Baby-sustertjie], hy’s nou oorlede. Nou kom hy nou weer eers uit die hok uit. Daai aand toe dans ons die heel nag. En ons verwag my derde oudste kind. Heel nag gedans daai aand op’ie plaas.
Lekker dae, oe! Lekker dae!
NvR En sê dan so ouma.
AV So? Meneer nou klaar?
MM Ja, ek… Is daar nog iets wat ouma wil vertel, of ‘n storie of ‘n ding?
AV Askies?
MM Het ouma nog ‘n storie van iets wat ouma wil vertel, van iets wat ouma gemaak ‘et, of gedoen ‘et?
AV As o’s nou ge-[inaudible], o’s het gomme geëet, baie kere nie bessies’ie. Kyk, hulle sê vir die kafferbessies [die vrug van die Kraaibessie, Grewia flava], daai bruin bessies
NvR Ja, daai bruin bessies
AV Van die vaalboompie
NvR Die ǃung-bessie, daai wat hulle so noem.
AV Ja. Saterdag môre gaan o’s – by die sel’de Maselsfontein – gaan o’s daar by die, pastoor weet nou waa’s’ie birip-plaas [‘Tswana mens se plaas’]?
NvR Ja, die birip…
AV Pluk o’s daar bessies. Bessies. En daai ding, ek kan hom gepluk’et
NvR ‘pluk’et
AV Bessies. En wee’ jy, die ding van daai ding, jy, jy kannie as jy nou pluk, eerste in jou mond gooi nie, haa! Jy kom’ie by hom weer uit’ie
Om die in jou bek te gooi, in jou bek. Vanaand, daai sel’e wildplaas, daar melk o’s skape
NvR Skape
AV Daai blou Dorper
NvR Daai blou Dorper
AV Eh, dinges ooie. Ons melk skape
NvR Karkoerskape
AV Karkoer, daai. Dan melk ons skape, sonder baklei in die pad, sonder vloek mekaar. Soos vandag se kinders kannie hulle tong bymekaar nie.
NvR Jissie.
AV Daar word gevloek, “jou ma” gevloek
NvR En moord gemaak, en al daai goeters
AV Daai jare nie, o’s het lekker lekker dae gehet. O’s eet gom in’ie rivierbome. Douglas het’ie gomme meer’ie.
NvR Nee, my ma. Ek sien hy word so gekyk, daar hang en daar ook. Dan sê ek, “Hey, maar die goed het ons geëet”
AV Sien, man, tan’e, dis ‘ie gomme wat my tan’e so laat lyk
Gomme. Weet jy, oor die hokmeisie kan ek ein’lik baie praat, maar ek, ek sê ek ontgaan die ander goed
NvR Die ander goete.
MM Wanne’r het ouma hier Breipaal toe gekom?
AV In’ie sewentigs.
MM Waarvoor?
AV Nee, want kyk ek is hier getroud, en jy gaan mos al agter die man aan.
Al agter die man.
MM So was hy van Breipaal af?
AV Ons het hier by, hier rond en by, in die plase gewerk. Kyk, ons het, ek het hier gewerk, by daai blanke vrou, Marie Badenhorst. Sien jy, hier voor die apteek draai jy reg op straat
NvR Reg op straat, ja
AV O’s, ek het daar gewerk. Marie Badenhorst, Stoffel Badenhorst
NvR Oukei
AV Daar gewerk, en toe’s ek neentien jaar op Maselsfontein. Toe’t Maselsfontein nou mos tot niet gaan, toe moes ons terug gaan huis toe, sien jy. Want elkeen moe’ nou kyk waar kry hy ‘n nes om te skop.
NvR ‘is waar
AV So’t o’s op Griekwastad-goed uitgekom, terug gekom hier rondom Douglas, hier rondom Douglas. En my laaste plek waar ek gebly het was Monterra [sic, Bon Terra -29.06097140738389,23.724632263183583], [inaudible] Josephs, Monterra. My laaste plaas gewees. Toe kom ek nou in Douglas, maar ek het nie weer uitgebeweeg’ie. Was my laaste plaas, daai. Monterra. Ek’t nie weer uigebeweeg’ie. Ek’t oes-werke gedoen, so-so. Eintlig my verniel in oes-werke vir [inaudible] In die huis, in daai lewe hard gehet
NvR ‘is so
AV Jy kannie sit’ie
NvR Hy werk, hy werk hard
AV Daai ǀamku-vrou, hy kannie sit’ie. Jou vingers juk, jy moet werk, hmm.
NvR My ouma Anna…
AV Ek kyk vandag se jong meisies, so sê ek “Wragtigwaar… vandag? Jong wees? Haai man.”
NvR Ja nee, die jong kin’ers mannetjiese maak my siek. Maar jy hoor hy’t nog vrou
NvR Hy praat van “my vrou”
AV En hoe smaak sy mond!
Ai, ons het lekker, lekker, lekker, lekker dae gehet. Daai was swaar dae gewees, en lekker dae gewees.
NvR Daar was swaar tye. Nee, nou dit is wat ek nou mos sê
AV Ek dink op een jaar, toe ek was in Monterra, daai krismis. Nou my man en ‘ie ander, ons [?] kom gooi mekaar, sien? Daai, daai kirsmis is’it nou die ander een se beurt om gegooi te word. Toe eet ek dunpap, daai kirsmis. Ek sê vir my kind, “hier eet [?] ons vanmôre almal nou”
NvR Almal
AV In ‘aai dunpap
NvR In ‘aai dunpap
AV Nou vandag se kinders, “O! ‘is ou brood” of is ‘it ‘ie o’k brood’ie “dis ou kos”, heey!
NvR Gisteraand, net gi’ter sinne
AV Man!
En o’s het vleise geëet, hoor jy?
NvR Sjoe!
AV Dik bene, rug bene. Byt hom, vat’om met twee han’e. En dan kom daar swaar dae o’k weer. Ja met die bybel, vir ou Jiphraimse se vrou
NvR Ja
AV [inaudible] met die goeie tevrede nie, o’k met die slegte
NvR Gaan o’k net oor die goeie
AV Jy moet moet aanvaar, elke ding soos hy kom, moet jy aanvaar
NvR Yes
MM In die ou dae, waar’t hulle, waar het hulle die mense begrawe? Op’ie plaas?
AV Ja, kyk, elke daar waar jy bly, mos, as daar ‘n iemand sterwe, dan begrawe jy hom op’ie plaas
NvR Daar’s ‘n begrafnisplek, sommer op’ie plaas.
AV Nou hier in’ie dorp gaan jy mos nou almal graveyard toe,
NvR Graveyard toe, ja.
AV Oor’ie bruggie, begrawe. Daar op’ie plaas het elkeen wat sterwe op ‘aai plaas, hy word daar gebegrawe, ja
NvR Daar gebegrawe
AV Hy word daar gebegrawe
NvR Nou sê die boere almal moet nou hier in die dorp kom lê. Weet, laas, drie maande terug, toe kom daar ‘n eene van die plaas af, toe wil die blanke nie hê hy moet daar gebegrawe word nie. Toe moet hy hier op’ie, in’ie dorp gebegrawe word.
AV Ja, hulle maak mos so. Hulle maak so. Maar die mense het so gebegrawe, as jy op ‘n plaas sterwe… Maar ons het gelukkig, ons het nog’ie dode op’ie plase gehet’ie, sien?
NvR Nee, dis nog’ie so baie nie. O’s het meer in die dorp gebeginne
MM En, as iemand nou sterwe, is daar, doen hulle iets spesiaal voor hulle nou begrawe word, of?
AV Askies?
MM Wat doen hulle as iemand nou sterwe en begrawe moet word?
AV Nee, ons maak net kerke. En begrawe. Wil jy eintlik dit weet?
NvR Daar’s hier mos nou yskaste, daar’s ykaste
AV Kyk, nie daai jare nie, wat jy moet oor drie dae begrawe nie. As jy op ‘n plaas bly, kom ‘aai lyk in, sê maar iemand sterf by die hospitaal, dan gaan die lyk nou mortuary toe. Daar, daai week bly jy daar, tot daai Saterdag, dan kom haal die familie hom nou, kom begraw hulle. Soos hier ook nog. Mense moet lê daar tot Vrydag, tot Saterdag môre
NvR Sterwe hy in’ie huis in, dan moet hy lê, van Woensdag tot en met Vrydag word hy gebegrawe. So. Maar nou as hy Vrydag, nou op Woensdag sterwe, dan word hy in die mortuary loop gesit
AV Uh, in gesit
NvR Dan moet ons hom nou volgende week begrawe. So.
AV Die goed sê hulle ook is nou anderster
NvR Dis nou die…
AV Dis darem nou as-lug [?]
NvR Dis mos nou al, nou die, die, hierdie goete wat nou die goeterse maak. Dis mos WhatsApp-se, en Facebook en, o, die goed!
AV Weet pastoor hoe dom is ek nou? Hier’s my foon
“Hê, dinges, kom hierso! Kom sit hier my deur na ‘n nommer!”
Haai! Here, die goed wat ek self moet doen! Ek kan noe eers nou dinges, die dinges, die lug-ding kyk’ie, insit of so, sien? As jy nou kaartjie gekoop, die krag
NvR Die krag
AV Kannie hom insit’ie. Ek is te dom nou! Ek het daai hele [inaudible] o’k self gedoen, jo! Ek sê as anderes vir my sê, “ek het nie gedink ek sal by die plek gekom waar ek nou is’ie”, jo! Maar ek moet dankbaar wees
NvR Ek praat daarvan ouma, moet nou net dankbaar wees. Ja ouma.
AV En ek sit nou, nou dink ek wens so as, as, voor ek sterwe, daar ‘n lekker hokmeisie gehou word, iewers!
NvR Ja
AV Kyk, hulle wil’ie vandag in’ie hok wees’ie
NvR Hulle sê hy behoort nie in die hok noe
AV Hy’s nie ‘n hoender nie
NvR Maar hy weet’ie hoe gooi hy sy geluk weg’ie!
AV Dit loop so deur nou, hulle sal nie uit die hok uit kan kom nie
Ooe, ja wêreld, ja. Nee, ek sal my goed self wil doen, ek het self met die voet, self geloop dorp toe, dan doen ek my shopping. Van Monterra, dan kom ek daai Saterdag môre dorp toe, dra ek my goed op my kop terug plaas toe. Dit was’ie ‘n probleem vir my gewees nie. En nou? Jo!
Ek is nou hoender-swak! Maar ek moet dankbaar wees.
NvR Dis wat ek sê
AV Dankbaar wees, vir die Here.
NvR Met als en als dankbaar wees
AV Dis so. Nou seker klaar?
MM Amper, amper.
Toe ouma klein was, wie het nog die Griekwataal gepraat?
AV Ek sê ek kan hom nie veel praat’ie
MM Nee, maar ander mense, ander mense wie… Ouma se ma-hulle of tannies, of ‘n oom
AV Ja, kyk, my ma het nie eintlik met ons Griekwataal gepraat’ie, sien jy? Hy’t net so woorde op rou gesê
NvR Ja, so-so
AV So woorde gesê, daai woorde onthou ek nou. Daai ǀamku, as ons se ǀamku-vrou of -meisiekind, daai dansgoete
NvR “Tel op jou xabakas, kry jou xabakas-e reg”, so. Soos daai man wat ek nou hier, wat ons nou hier begrawe, die mense en die kinders het hom die naam gegee van xabakas, nou wil hulle weet. Toe sê ek mos nou “nee, xabakas is mos nou skottelgoed en daai tipe goed”
AV Ja baie mense… nou, die een van my vrou, hy’s ook nie so lekker in sy kop’ie, hy laaik’ie daai woord van xabakas ‘ie
Nou sê ek vir hom, “nee, daai ‘is’ie vloek-ding’ie, ‘is skottelgoed. Tel op daai xabakas.” Nou hier vat hy’it as vloekwoord.
Ek sê vir hom “nee, dis’ie vloek’ie”
NvR Ja
AV ǀammi [sic] is water, ǀoos is vrou, birip [sic] is ‘n man, nǀuib is vet, gǀanni is vleis, dis net daai paar goedjies, ken ek so, maar nie diep in nie
NvR Diep in’ie, ja. Soos wat my ook maar ook weet, wat my ouma nou kom tjee het, toe kom raak my ouma was nou swart. My skoonma het hom vir o’s getjee, maar o’k swak, toe sterwe hy
NvR Maar nou vir, nou lê o’s daarin, nou moet o’s maar in leer
AV Ja, sommer net een woord, of nou
NvR Ja, sommer een ding met nou maak
MM En as iemand siek is, hoe sê ‘n mens?
AV As hy siek is?
MM Mmm
NvR Hy’s kaesen [sic]
AV Ja, hy’s ǀaesen, hy’s klagtelik, hy’s siek. Dit onthou ek darem nog. ǀaesen
MM En, ‘n leeu? ‘n Lou?
NvR Nee…
MM Ek vra al vir almal, niemand kan al vir my sê nie. Ek weet, ek weet wat dit is, maar ek wag vir iemand om my te sê
NvR My sê, ja
MM As jy sê xam [sic] xam is ‘n leeu
AV O, is’it?
MM Maar daar’s mos lankal nie meer leeus hier rond nie, dis nie nodig om te weet wat is ‘n leeu nie
AV Nee, maar jy moet weet, as jy een dag sien dan sê jy “jaaa”
NvR “Hier’s die xam”
MM Oukei, ek sê baie dankie vir ouma